Torn ACL

[Maineac]

It's CB's mom again.......Sadly, she has been having knee problems and we would greatly appreciate any and all advice. In late 2015 she partially tore her ACL and we opted for conservative management. It worked great until about 2 weeks ago when she was running in the deep snow and started holding her right rear leg up. A trip to the vet revealed a completely torn ACL. We brought her to one of the best surgeons in our part of the state, that is all he does, and got a second opinion. He said we could go with conservative management again or elect to have surgery. He said that it will heal eventually on it own without surgery. It has been 2 weeks and any healing that takes place during the night when she is sleeping is ruined when she wakes up. As you all know it is so very hard to keep a Boxer from being a Boxer! She is impossible in a crate and does more damage to herself when in it and it breaks my heart, so no crate. We keep her on a leash to go out now, help her up the stairs, carry her into the car,  etc... but she still tries to jump up to look out the windows or doors, she gets so excited to be petted that she is continuously doing her Boxer kidney bean dance, she attempts to jump up on her favorite furniture, we bought a ramp when she first partially tore the ACL and she won't use it, she jumps around it!  No worth while healing is taking place.  And I have since read through hours and hours of research that a completely torn ACL will not heal on it's own. ?? So confusing to what believe......We are going for another opinion in early April to a different surgeon with the possibility of same day surgery. What kind of surgery?  One doctor recommended Fibular Head Transpositioning (Modified) and another recommended TTA. They both said that Lateral Fabellar Suture is not recommended for dogs over 40 lbs yet I've read on here that is does work on Boxers. We are so confused and just don't know what to do. Also, a scary thing for us is that every single vet we talked to, either in person or on the phone, said that they never heard of ACE being bad for Boxers. And they all use it. What?!? I have read over and over to never EVER use ACE on Boxers. I specifically asked when she was spayed, no ACE......I had assumed they didn't use it.....now I wonder?
Anyways, does anyone have any advice about their ACL experiences? I am scared to death about having her have surgery but I also want her to heal and be able to play like a Boxer again. She deserves to run and play ball again, to enjoy her life and run like a crazy girl around the yard. Watching her run outside around and around the house at full Boxer speed has made me laugh so many times, it just gives me so much pleasure to know how much fun she is having.....oh, I wish I could watch her do that again.......she looks so sad.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and thanks in advance for any advice offered.....from one Boxer lover to other Boxer lovers!! 

[Stephanie]

Hi there, so sorry you are dealing with this, must be hard for you and especially so for CB.  My understanding is that a complete tear will not heal on it's own.  Nancy and George have both been through this with their boxers and will be able to offer you far more insight than I can.  Have a read of this link in relation to ACE..  https://www.boxerdogforums.com/index.php?topic=5246.0  I have seen many different vets with my dogs over the years.  Some of them will use ACE on a boxer; some of them use it at a reduced dose to a longer nosed dog and others will not use it at all.  Personally, I would not let any vet use it on a boxer I owned or cared for, particularly as they are just as effective alternatives, but others may think differently.

[Eilene1015]

Good luck and let us know whatyou decide..I dont have any experience with ACL but  know many dogs that have had it done.. I too have a told not vet no Ace but he already knew of the dangers.

[Maineac]

Thank you for taking the time to read my long post......I didn't realize it was so long until I saw it on here! I will definitely keep you posted on what we decide, most likely surgery. Thanks for responding!

[Nancy-IL]

Hi and Welcome to the forum.  I gasped when you wrote that the Vet said, It would heal on it's own".  WHAT??? 

We have been through two knee surgeries and it was the best thing for our 90 lb. boy.  We never had to worry after his knee healed.  First he tore one knee and the Vet/surgeon said that he will tear his other ACL in his other knee at some point and time.  He guaranteed it.  Sure enough, our boy did.  So into the surgery room again and again, it was the best thing for our boy.  He went to Rainbow Bridge last year and he's dearly missed and we wouldn't change a thing if it happens to our puppy or the queen Maggie. 

Our vet doesn't use the ACE on Boxers.

[Loki and Dad E]

Welcome to the forum! I can speak as a human an ACL will not heal on it's own. I have had a 3\4 tear in mine for over 10 years and a follow up MRI 10 years later got the same report from a different Radiologist. Would a broken rubber band heal on it's own?.....pretty much the same thing. Surgery is the only way to restore stability to the joint plus constant loose movement will add more arthritis to the knee joint if left untreated.
I hope she gets better cuz a boxer just has to run!!! 
Take care,
Eric from Missouri 

[Maineac]

Thank you all for responding to my post. I would love to share a few pics of our girl. I will do so in the gallery forum.  I have another question about the surgery. One surgeon only does day surgery so she would come home with us that night. The others said one or two overnights. She has never been away from us for more than an afternoon. She is with us 24/7.  Is it risky to bring them home the same day as the surgery? Our appt is for 4/6 for a consultation and possible surgery that afternoon if we decide, which is what we most probably will do. Thanks, Eric, for your rubber band comment.....no matter how much scar tissue forms I can't imagine that her knee would be the same as it was with a ligament. Plus, all that arthritis. Right now we are giving her Movoflex once a day to helpfully hope with that.
Nancy - I have read a lot of your posts regarding General's knee surgeries and they have helped a lot. One night my husband looked over at me and the tears were just flowing down my face. I was reading about your dear handsome General and the horrible diagnosis and all that followed. You made him proud with your courage and your tribute to him. One day your reunion will be so beautiful.....you better brace yourself when he comes flying across that Rainbow Bridge to greet you!

[Nancy-IL]

Oh my gosh, I've got tears flowing.  Thank you for your kind words about our dear General.  He wore that name proudly too.  Bless you.  I miss him so much. 


They did NOT keep General over night and he was still ..........As our Vet stated, "Seeing love beads and Lava lights."  We picked him up that day and General came walking out as though he didn't have surgery.  What a dog.  Then when he was home, he slept most of the day.  We also haven't left our fur babies except for one night 4 years ago and it was only 12 hours.  They were both in the same kennel/run.  We couldn't wait to go pick them up.  He was always by our side, no matter what we were doing. 

Honestly, it was a relief to know that he would NOT be having anymore ACL knee problems.  He had Super Man rubber bands.  LOL.  He had a bit of arthritis but he would never let it known.  He didn't show pain except for two times.  Once  before his first ACL surgery he went behind the love seat and whimpered a tiny noise.  Then once when he was sick and those damn Mast Cell Tumors were filling his lungs, he was looking out the window and he did a cough like noise and I could see him move.  He turned around to see if I saw him.  I know he did.  He did NOT want to look weak, ever.   We couldn't be selfish, it was his time. 

I am so sorry, I got carried away.  All the memories came back, it's still so fresh in my mind. 

Oh, Both times General had knee surgery, it was early in the morning and we picked him up at closing time.  4:30 - 5:00 pm.  I wish you lots of happy times to come.  Please keep us posted on your dear girl. 

 

[grkline]

Hi and welcome. My Bailey had his left one done.

[Maineac]

Nancy - Thanks for sharing about General's surgery.  Please don't apologize for talking about him, I love to hear about him. CB sounds so much like him. She doesn't show pain either. In fact, most people who see her asks us, "Are you sure she needs surgery,  she's seems fine." Later she will hold her leg up in the air to eat and walk but never whimper. When in states like TX or AZ she will get those darn round picky things in her paw and come to a stop, look at us, hold up her paw and wait for us to remove it. If I get one in my finger it hurts like H*** and I complain! She's happy as long as she is with us, pain be darn.
How long before they can take leash walks? We also have a 3 story home......going to be a long recovery.

[Scout-Gunners Momma]

We brought out Scout home after surgery.  He wasn't able to take walks for 2 weeks and then we had to build up slowly.  To end of drive and back, then end of block and back and so on.  We live in a bi-level home and we left his harness on and used that to help carry him up the stairs.  We also had to leash him to us in house towards the end so he wouldn't run too much with Gunner and re-injure.  I hope all goes well.  Please keep us updated!

[Nancy-IL]

Thank you Mainiac, They really do sound so much alike.  Bless her heart.  I know those darn little prickly things out there in AZ hurt like CRAZY! 

We have a split level and there's no way to get around NOT using the stairs.  After her surgery, she will need help with going up and down the stairs.  We bought a belly pull for General but a large towel under the belly works wonders.  We felt there was more to get a hold of while helping him up the steps.  and it was more supportive too.  We liked that better than the "belly pull" thingy.  Just cradle her in it and hold on to both ends.  Works great! 

As for when leash walks?  Honestly, I can't remember.  Seems like it was before he got all the sutures/staples out.  General knew his limitations and it sounds like CB might also.  The Vet had said that he was putting weight on it before we even picked him up and he was quite impressed.  We're guessing that the pain was less after the surgery as to what it was before. 

Please keep us posted on your dear CB.  I think I'm in love all over again.   

[Maineac]

Thank you all for such wonderful information! I keep forgetting to mention this but you all have such beautiful Boxers, I just love them all.
 I wish we could have had 2 but it would be very crowded in a semi with 2 people and 2 Boxers. We actually did go crazy once going through TX, we saw an ad for a Boxer pup for sale and on a whim we called. The owner showed up with a beautiful baby girl, 3 months old, who looked a lot like CB when she was a pup  (she was a year old at this point) so we told the guy we would take her for the evening and try it out and call him in the morning. Well, I fell in love with her and we had so much fun that night watching the two of them play. Then I started reading about how 2 female Boxers don't get along together as adults and one could end up killing the other one! Everything I read said you should get a male and a female not female and female. I scared myself to death thinking that once she was grown that we would come back to the truck after fueling and one of them would be gravely injured. Plus it was crowded with one grown dog and one pup and I ended talking myself out of it.......it was so hard to give her back, it broke my heart but I didn't think it was fair to either of them if we would be breaking up dog fights....then the guy told us that her mother had died in a dog fight with another female so that helped me a little. I still think of that little pup and wonder if I had made the right decision.....

[Idigboxers2]

Nancy's right a torn Cruciate won't heal on it's own. You prob read about Lily then. (if not, check out her thread) She's had amazing results with both her knee surgeries. She's back to being HBIC, & fastest runner of our three.

[Maineac]

Oh and Nancy you asked what CB's initials mean, sorry I forgot to answer -  many things actually, we got her around Christmas time so Christmas Boxer, our initials are C and B so CB, my husband says Crazy Boxer, and since she is a trucking dog, CB for the radio.....